RADICAL DISCUSSIONS: Do Women Need Make-up Or Any Other Form Of Cosmetic Enhancement?

29 Jul
Model Alek Wek.

Image via Wikipedia

Welcome once again to radical discussions, where Femi A and Femi J have a series of arguments about various controversial and life changing topics. The rules of war are simple – we both choose a side and the debate begins.

Feel free to join in, but we do warn you that this battle ground is only for the open minded.

Now that we have our usual introduction out of the way, let’s jump into the discussion:

Do women need make-up or any other form of cosmetic enhancement? 

My answer to this is no. What exactly do women ‘need’ make up for? While i can understand a few of the reasons why women use make up – insecurity, beauty enhancement, peer pressure, to find a man etc, none of these reasons are substantial enough when one analyses the nature of make-up itself.

What i find most interesting about make-up, is the fact that most women that wear it would have a problem if their 5 year old daughter uses it. So i ask, why is that? What is it about the nature of make-up that is so popularly accepted amongst adults, yet when it comes to allowing its use freely amongst kids there is all of a sudden a problem. The few things i know that fall under this category are things like alcohol, cigarrettes, restricted films, clubbing etc, where it is accepted that these items can be used only when one “becomes of age” – sitting amongst this category of elements, we find make-up.

Clearly there must be some sort of sinister element to it, if the general public would find it strange to see toddlers wearing make up. I can only assume that this is because it would attract the wrong kind of attention and it will illustrate that the childs focus is on the wrong things.

During the course of this discussion i hope to shed more light on the fickle nature of make-up, the problems with it, as well as explore plastic surgery and other more interesting forms of cosmetic enhancement in order to prove to you that these things are not only unnecessary, but they actually do more harm than good.

Femi J – Your move 🙂

Readers can join in the conversation or vote below:



Posted by on July 29, 2011 in RADICAL DISCUSSIONS, THOUGHTS


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25 responses to “RADICAL DISCUSSIONS: Do Women Need Make-up Or Any Other Form Of Cosmetic Enhancement?

  1. mystikey

    July 29, 2011 at 4:00 am

    The answer to the question ‘Do women need make-up or any other form of cosmetic enhancement?’ is YES. Let us start with the ‘make-up’ aspect — You may have heard it before – that practically all women do not look good without make-up…I can’t even begin to imagine a world full of women walking around without make-up…it would be a very miserable world indeed.

  2. mystikey

    July 29, 2011 at 2:24 pm

    Do women need make-up? Yeah! How else are they supposed to remain the ‘fairer’ sex? All women understand the NEED for make-up…any man that doesn’t understand that is looking for trouble.

  3. mystikey

    July 29, 2011 at 2:27 pm

    …you wrote ‘While i can understand a few of the reasons why women use make up – insecurity, beauty enhancement, peer pressure, to find a man’….women that use make-up are not necessarily insecure, and are not necessarily trying to find a man….they are using it because it brings out the beauty that they already possess….or it covers the blemishes in their beauty…..or it hides the things they don’t want you to see….but it has nothing to do with trying to find a man….


    July 29, 2011 at 3:40 pm

    Hmmm…. Ok so lets explore the extent to which your statements are true.

    You are saying that it is popularly believed that “practically all women do not look good without make-up” – but is this actually true?

    To begin with i dare say that most women actually do not know how to apply make-up. Most have no idea what goes with their skin tone, what shades go where, or even the effects that differ from product to product.

    In the UK there is a show called “Snog, Marry, Avoid”, which is different from the typical approach to make up shows. In the show the host does a “make under”, rather than a “make-over”, and a survey is done before and after in order to determine the response of the public to the change in the girls appearance. You may be shocked to discover that more often than not, natural beauty actually outweighs a lot of what make-up claims to provide.

    Moving on to the fact that “you cant imagine a world full of women walking around without make-up” – is this “actually unimaginable”, or is this one of those statements like “i can’t imagine life without a mobile phone” – where one can understand where you are coming from, but at the back of our minds we both know that life will go on without mobile phones and make up.

    True beauty does not need to be covered up with a lie. Even the very name “make-up” implies some form of deception, because essentially what women do is “make-up a face that isnt theirs.

    Scenario: A man walks down the street and he sees a woman that he considers to be stunningly attractive. He decides to speak with her, and his only reason for doing this is because he is intriuged by the extent of her facial beauty. They meet up a few times and get to know each other a bit better, and somewhere along the line they start dating.

    One day the woman gets a bit too comfortable and she lets her guard down. He shows up at her doorstep unannounced and upon opening the door he discovers that this woman he has been dating has a completely different face! Except that this particular face that she happens to be wearing at this point, cannot be washed off.

    Question: Should the man feel that the woman was lying to him all this time about what she actually looked like?

    Lets use your reasoning and apply it to the scenario:

    The woman defends herself by saying “i was using the make-up to bring out the beauty i already possess, cover a few blemishes and hide a few things i didnt want you to see”

    By her own admission (based on your reasons for make-up use), consciously or subconsciously, when she puts on make up every morning, her intent is to decieve everyone that sees her that day on some level or the other. Either to get people to think she is more beautiful than she is, or to hide the features she considers to be ugly.

    What women dont realise is that in their efforts to remain the fairer sex – they attract the wrong kinds of people, for the wrong reasons. Personally i would rather know what my partner actually looks like, than discover at a later date that the face i have grown to love, was bought in a shop.

  5. mystikey

    July 29, 2011 at 3:52 pm

    but if you had a blemish on your skin, or a rash, you would cover it up to make yourself more presentable. you do not want people noticing your rash instead of noticing you. Let’s be very practical….if we have dry skin we apply ‘moisturizers’, if we have rashes, we apply topical creams etc to resolve the rash….WHY then, if we have irregular skin, uneven skin texture etc can’t we apply ‘make-up’ to resolve this. We can take a pill for headaches, BUT we can’t make-up? That is not a very reasonable idea at all! When we analyze make-up they are merely chemicals that have certain effects on the skin….look at the ingredients (some of which we can find in shaving creams, foams, powders etc) SO is it a crime for a man to shave? Some of the ingredients can be found in SOAP, SO is it a crime to take a bath/shower with soap? Some of the ingredients can be found in medications too….is it a crime to take medication? NO….make-up is just a mixture of chemicals that have been tested and found to make a lady’s appearance better. Make-up is just like a dress we wear. We can wear anything we like, but we normally wear something that makes us look good and so ladies wear a dress…AND they wear make-up too….


    July 29, 2011 at 4:43 pm

    A very critical question needs to be asked at this point. What were men and women doing before there was make up and moisturisers?

    Were people in the past unable to have conversations and relationships because of rashes and irregular skin?

    No, life went on despite this, and because we had no sense of comparison it was not considered as an issue; but now the bar has been raised.

    Let me expand a little more on that point by relating it to the film industry and evolution.

    It is almost laughable when one watches a film today that was made in 80’s. It often doesnt even matter if the film has a good story line; the CGI and special effects are just so bad that one can spend 2 hours criticising the entire movie from start to finish.

    Back in the day a film like the terminator was celebrated because of how futuristic and technologically advanced it was. Comparing that to todays “transformers” and it becomes almost unthinkable that Steven Spielberg could have gotten away with such mediocrity.

    Lets relate this example back to the topic.

    There was a time when natural beauty was celebrated, because that was all we had. There was no make up, moisturizers or any other chemicals that were used to create an illusion of beauty other than what could be seen in front of you.

    The cosmetic industry came along, and natural beauty was left behind (somewhere next to Arnold Schwarzenegger), and now we can no longer recognise beauty when we see it. Beauty is no longer about what you were born with, but instead its about how good your painting skills are.

    The bar has been raised, and with these heightened expectations has come a different value system and a distorted evolutionary trend.

    The best forms of cosmetic enhancement are often the most expensive. So ultimately some women cannot actually “afford” to be beautiful by societys standards. Its just too expensive.

    We have been sold a lie to make us think that beauty can be bought; and we have models and air brushed images to tempt us into thinking that there is beauty in looking like plastic.

    What the people that make these products wont tell you, is that the more you use them, the more reliant your skin becomes on them.

    By convincing society that beauty can only be found through make up, we are led down a road that leads to teenagers committing suicide because they cant afford to look like how soceity expects them to. There is nothing wrong with looking good. But if looking good requires you to create a completely different face, is it really worth it?

  7. mystikey

    July 29, 2011 at 5:01 pm

    you asked a question ‘What were men and women doing before there was make up and moisturisers?’….the answer is they were using make-up and moisturizers.
    Let’s take a look at scriptures for a moment — Esther 2: 8-9 : Esther also was taken to the king’s palace and entrusted to Hegai, who had charge of the harem. She pleased him and won his favor. Immediately he provided her with her beauty treatments and special food.
    Wait a minute….Esther used beauty treatments and special food? Esther can use that, and be recognized as one of the most important women in the bible, but a modern lady cannot use ‘make-up’? There is nothing wrong with using make-up….

  8. mystikey

    July 29, 2011 at 5:42 pm

    now, myrrh was used a lot in biblical days (see Songs of Solomon). Myrrh is a gum-oil resin extracted from various varieties of the genus Commiphora, trees with grayish bark, growing mainly along the coasts of the Red Sea. Myrrh, has always been (used) in the preparation of domestic and religious incense and in perfumed oils and ‘skin application’. Myrrh was used because of it’s effect on the skin…..oh, are make-up used because of their effects on the skin? YES…..
    NOW, myrrh (the same old myrrh) is used as a ‘cosmetic’ ingredient….see
    what I am saying is that ‘make-up’ was used in the old days….why shouldn’t make-up be used now….While I understand that you may see make-up as a tool of deception used by women to cover up lies, it is also a tool used to take care of the skin to express (or preserve) it’s beauty.

  9. mystikey

    July 29, 2011 at 5:58 pm

    Online dictionary defines make-up as:
    1. facial cosmetics, as eye shadow or lipstick.
    2. cosmetics used on other parts of the body, as to cover birthmarks.
    3. the application of cosmetics.

    Make-up is used as a aesthetic tool. If we can all agree that a painting by an artiste is beautiful but perhaps exaggerated in detail…or we can say that a car is of high aesthetic quality….we must be able to see make-up as a type of ‘aesthetic accoutrement’ that may add beauty into an otherwise un-beautiful potrait of a lady or add more beauty into a very beautiful image of a lady. Even when we take pictures with a camera, we strive to take beautiful images and there are aesthetic tools such as the amount of light, the color of the light, the type of light, the depth of the camera exposure, the shadows etc….In similar fashion, make-up merely ADDS to the beauty of a lady. It serves to make ‘beauty’ more beautiful, more prominent and more expressive. Tell me, is that so bad after all???

    • Mia

      August 2, 2011 at 12:24 am

      ah so you agree that a lady can be naturally beautiful if make up serves to ADD MORE beauty to a lady? why then would you say a world full of women walking around with their natural faces(without make up) would be miserable? I dont think make up is bad, but I do think its important that people are happy with who they are. People should not feel ashamed of what God has given them because society does not deem it attractive. The fact is that even those models that thousands of women kill to look like are enhanced with CGI, make up, lighting and the like. So it is important to do only what make you feel comfortable. Also, in all truth most of the chemicals in make up destroy the skin, which is why women have to cleanse so much and constantly suffer breakouts (pimples or rashes) otherwise.


    July 29, 2011 at 6:45 pm

    Your reference to the bible seems to come with the assumption that this is the oldest text available to humanity. The story of Esther is simply a biography of a woman that existed in a society at some point in history, so her level of importance as far as make-up tips goes is very debatable.

    There was a point in time when something as basic as “fire” was yet to be discovered. I have my doubts about whether cave women were stumbling across random bottles of ‘mac’ and eye shadow while they were out trying to find food.

    From a biblical perspective though let us take a look at who many would consider as the “most important” person in the bible (possibly even more important than Esther ;-). Jesus Christ.

    Isaiah gave a prophetic statement about what Christ would look like –

    Isaiah 53:2 – “He grew up before him like a tender shoot, and like a root out of dry ground. HE HAD NO BEAUTY OR MAJESTY TO ATTRACT US TO HIM, NOTHING IN HIS APPEARANCE THAT WE SHOULD DESIRE HIM.”

    Let us assume for the sake of the discussion that this prophecy was true.

    On that basis i would like to ask the obvious question that comes to mind. Why would Jesus Christ, the son of God, come in a body that has no beauty, and have nothing great in his appearance; precisely so that men would not desire or be attracted to him?

    Evidently, there is something about beauty that goes beyond just the eye.

    Situating this within the context of society. Christianity depicted a white, blue eyed, blonde haired, cute man as the image of Christ – even though he was middle eastern. I can only assume that this was done in an effort to make him “beautiful” or more acceptable. Because we may be a bit reluctant to have a man with rashes, spots, and a skin tone that’s in desperate need of moisturizer, hanging on our walls.

    What the cosmetics industry has done, is it has taken advantage of the obsessive way in which people are prepared to follow celebrities, and they have literally sold us a concept of beauty, and convinced us that we need to buy into it so that we can feel like better people.

    What we have here is something that has gone beyond an “aesthetic tool”. A lot of women are admittedly unable to confront other people without wearing a different face, both literally and metaphorically.

    By giving the external this level of importance society has overlooked true beauty which can only be found on the inside. The online dictionary may define make-up as something used to cover birth marks, but the reality is make-up has evolved to cover ‘entire personalities’.

    Somewhere between the lipsticks and eye shadows there must be a point where women ask themselves “what is beauty?”, and if per chance they manage to stumble upon a definition that is profound, they will inevitably realise that it really isnt something that can be bought.

    Garnier, Mac and Maybeliene cant make you more beautiful, they can only make you think you are. And i am only telling you this “because youre worth it” (thats a joke for all dem make up fans) 😛

  11. mystikey

    July 29, 2011 at 7:36 pm

    You are right, but only to an extent. Let’s address the issue of ‘how old make-up is’….the simple answer is that we do not know how old make-up is but history tells us that the ancient Egyptians used make-up even as early as 3000 BC. Now if we go further back to the Sumerian civilization (up to 6000 BC), we can see some evidence that they used ‘beauty products’ (they used olive oils on their skin). Olive oil has been used by practically all ancient civilizations….’The Assyrians, Sumerians, Babylonians, Egyptians, Greeks and Romans, ALL used oils for religious and beauty purposes. Among the different types of oils that were used, olive oil was one of the most appreciated. It was used to cleanse the pores of the skin, to prevent the appearance of wrinkles, to hydrate, to make their hair shiny, etc. (see

    So, we can safely assume that cosmetics are as old as the oldest civilization we know, and are probably much older than that. While it may be very difficult to imagine that ‘cave women were stumbling across random bottles of ‘mac’ and eye shadow while they were out trying to find food’…it is not difficult to imagine that they applied ‘coconut’ oil, and certain ‘herbs’ to their skin to make themselves more ‘appealing’ to the men. They may have accidentally ‘stumbled’ on certain plants that had sweet aromas and magic powers that made the men chase after them. Perhaps these were ‘cosmetic’ products. Now, I cannot prove that cave women used cosmetics, but you cannot prove that they didn’t either.

    Let us look at Jesus Christ. As a child HE was given gold, frankincense and myrrh. Gold is used to beautify (there are even gold dust cosmetic products), Frankincense and Myrrh ARE cosmetic products (in addition to other uses). SO, the gifts of Jesus, in addition to having other spiritual significance, were ALL cosmetic products. I do not know if Mary occassionally used myrrh on Jesus as a child, or if she used olive oil, or other ‘oils’ on him. The weather in Israel at the time was, and still is, DRY….using olive oil as a ‘moisturizer’ is not unreasonable or unlikely.

    NOW, Mark 14:3 : While he was in Bethany, reclining at the table in the home of Simon the Leper, a woman came with an alabaster jar of very expensive perfume, made of pure nard. She broke the jar and poured the perfume on his head. (see also John 12:1). The question we may want to ask immediately is ‘what is nard’? Nard is ‘Nardostachys jatamansi’ which is a medicinal plant (also)used in cosmetics. So, we cannot totally disregard the idea that Jesus used cosmetics (as a child) and cosmetic was applied on HIM as a man. While we cannot say that ‘Jesus used cosmetic products’, we ALSO cannot say that HE didn’t.

    The real question is ‘are cosmetics good?’…the answer is most certainly YES. Yes, we know that there is a ‘vanity’ angle to cosmetology, but we also know there is the ‘medicinal’ and ‘art’ angle to it also. We cannot throw out a baby with the bath water…..we cannot ‘think’ that cosmetics are not necessary and at the same time assume that we are thinking ‘reasonably’. Garnier, Mac and Maybeliene can make you more beautiful, they can make you more beautiful for the cameras….they can make you more ‘appealing’ to look at!

  12. Chuchu

    July 29, 2011 at 10:21 pm

    i really dont think it is necessary, but in our world today many cant do w/o it so it is just a necessary Evil.


    July 30, 2011 at 12:24 am

    You present a very solid argument for the origin of make up. I will accept the notion that it is not unimaginable for example to think that at some point in time a cave woman decided to rub a plant on her face and accidentally discovered that it made her face fresher. While neither of us can accurately situate a point in civilisation when this happened, we can though place an exact date on the emergence of comestics as an “industry”.

    With that thought in mind at this point I would like to draw a distinction between the nature of a community that uses herbs known to accentuate youth, and a society that elevates the ‘importance of cosmetics’ as a way of life.

    Interestingly I watched a film last night called “the truth about cats and dogs” (dont worry its not a story about cats and dogs trying on make-up) this particular film was a romantic comedy based around the usual story line of guy meets girl, they fall in love etc but it had a unique twist, which I feel will be useful for this discussion.

    The main female character was a plain faced radio show host. She had a great personality, was incredibly smart, and her view of life made her uninterested in superficial things such as make-up, and her general appearance, (not saying she was dirty, she just wasnt, fashionable)

    Her next door neighbour – who became her best friend – was entirely opposite to her. She was stunningly beautiful by all mens standards, knew all her make up products in detail, was a model – a typical blonde bombshell beauty, who hadnt read a book in her life without any pictures (at this point I should probably apologise to all the blondes reading this description – I didnt create the stereotype or the film)

    Ok back to the story

    The main male character is the usual heart throb – the richard gere, brad pitt type looking guy that the girl is going to get with at the end of the film.

    Lets give them names to make it easier. So theres plain girl, make-up girl and hot guy.

    So hot guy calls up the radio station and has a conversation with plain girl. He falls in love with her voice and he asks her to hook up with him.

    Plain girl is extremely conscious of what she looks like, and she takes make-up girl with her to go and meet hot guy. When they meet hot guy, he accidentally thinks that make-up girl is the girl he spoke with on the radio. He goes on and on about how beautiful she is, and so plain girl decides to let him keep thinking that make-up girl is actually her.

    Now, make-up girl gives hot guy “plain girls” phone number. So that night he calls up plain girl, but has a completely different face in his mind regarding who he was talking to.

    Plain girl and hot guy talk all night until 5 in the morning. They learn all kinds of things about each other, and even go as far as having phone sex (if any kids are reading this close your eyes now and forget the last line).

    To cut a long story short, for most of the film hot guy thinks that make-up girl is actually plan girl. He is in love with one girls voice and personality, but he is in love with the other girls face.

    Make-up girl discovers that she is actually in love with hot guy as well, but she cant stand the fact that hot guy keeps calling her by plain girls name. A conflict occurs between the girls and in a resolutionary effort, make-up girl tells hot guy to write down a list of all the reasons why he loves her.

    Hot guy reads out the list in front of plain girl to get her opinion, and it was discovered that even though part of what he loved was her beauty, he emphasised a lot more things about her personality – and pointedly said that he would love her “regardless of what she looked like”.

    Eventually he finds out the truth and as you can imagine he was pissed. All this time he had thought that make-up girl was plain girl and it seemed like the two of them had just been taking him for a ride.

    The film ends though with hot guy getting with plain girl. He decided that he had fallen in love with a “person” and that meant more to him than a “face”.

    Ok, Im sure when I began this story I had point, so lets somehow try and link it in with the foundation that we have already laid.

    The cosmetic industry has gone beyond what we can term the “olive oil rubbing age” when it was more about the medicinal benefits that certain herbs can have on the skin. As Chu Chu said it has become a necessary evil, where the cosmetic industry has created an image of what beauty should be; and they have set the bar so high, that it has become expensive and emotionally threatening to fulfill these needs.

    Going back to the film, it is much easier to fall in love with a face than it is to fall in love with a personality. Women are so aware of this point that they see themselves in constant competition with other women, because when they get to a certain age, they feel that if they are not as cosmetic conscious as the younger generation; there is the possibility that they may lose their husbands to a more “made-up” girl.

    Women dont feel threatened by other women their husbands think are smart, intelligent and have a great personality; they feel threatened by the ones that are fine tuned and cosmetically polished.

    There is a difference between olive oil rubbing and shaving off eye brows so that they can be drawn on the following morning. While as you say this may make a womans face ‘more appealiing to look at’, it also makes sure that her personality becomes less significant – which throws up your question once again; are cosmetics actually good?

    Shifting ever so slightly up the scale we are confronted with another revolutionary form of cosmetic enhancement – “plastic surgery”.

    The cosmetic industry is now manufacturing breasts, bums and its even cutting off a penis or two along the way, in order to provide the option of men deciding to be women.

    They say necessity is the mother of invention. But the cosmetic industry has gone a step further and realised that if they can create an “illusion of necessity”, they can exploit the masses who are quick to believe that men are no longer interested in getting to know women – and convince women that they need to go through systematic body alterations, in order to stay relevant to a man they claim loves them.

    In this society we dont have adverts on how to become a more loving, caring or honest person. But we do have adverts on how to make eye lashes longer, make wrinkles disappear, and how to smell nice.

    It is values such as these that create obsessive personalities in women, whose only dream in life is to look like Beyonce.

    They say love is blind. But in this age you need to be blind in order to find love; otherwise you will end up with a woman that is nothing more than a painted face on a plastic body.

  14. Folarin Ogunnaike

    July 30, 2011 at 6:54 am

    Make-up when applied minimally depending on occassion does not mean a thing. I think it’s a personnal thing. I wear make up, but not on daily basis. How about a lady who has a masculine look, or a lady who goes about in a low cut hair? She needs to make her face to look stunning to an extent. I think if its done in moderation, it goes a long way. If a man is meeting you for the first time and you’re not wearing a make up, he may point it to you and ask why. I wear make-up, not because everybody does it, but because it’s what i enjoy doing when i really feel like.

  15. toni

    July 30, 2011 at 8:06 am

    really i think to each his own if you choose to wear it fine it makes you happy for some reason and if you feel like you do not need it then fine. but as mystikal pointed out what if you need to cover your blemishes the things dat make you unhappy or make pple stare at you like u are frm outerspace then really would anyone object to you covering it up in anyway you can. these things came about from trying to help people .

  16. mystikey

    July 30, 2011 at 2:38 pm

    Toni, I agree with you. Folarin Ogunnaike, I agree with you too. I have to go after Radical Chic Magazine (RCM) who wrote ‘The cosmetic industry is now manufacturing breasts, bums and its even cutting off a penis or two along the way, in order to provide the option of men deciding to be women’….I believe it is called ‘biomaterials replacement technology’.

    We have technology to move from place to place using airplanes, trains and cars…technology makes life more convenient for us. Can you imagine if we had no cell phones, computers and TV? OK, someone can wear ‘contact lens’ and ‘glasses’ if he can’t see properly to improve the quality of his/her life….but if a lady has ‘minuscle’ ‘miniature’ breasts she can’t have a breast implant? If her left breast is much bigger than her right breast, she can’t correct this? If her breasts are too big, causing pain and discomfort, she can’t have a breast reduction? why? because she’s being vain and unreasonable? or because it may affect her self-esteem and therefore the quality of her life? Some people collect ‘electronic technologies’ to enhance the quality of their lives, some may collect ‘advanced biomaterials replacement technologies’. What RCM called an ‘illusion of necessity’ is not an illusion after we look at it closely.

    Plastic surgery serves (at least) two purposes — as corrective surgery and as ‘aesthetic’ surgery. ‘Corrective’– in the sense that it may be medically ‘necessary’ to do such a surgery to resolve an impaired biological condition (in the same way make-up is sometimes used to correct blemishes etc) OR ‘Aesthetic’– in the sense that it may not be medically necessary but personally and psychologically expedient in order to raise a person’s self-esteem and self-worth (and quality of life in the process). YES, there are many reasons for collecting ‘advanced biomaterials replacement technologies’, reasons that range from ‘vanity’ to ‘unreasonable’ BUT these same reasons are at play when someone buys a car, or a iPad, or even a dress.

    Let us step back for one moment and ask ourselves if there is anything wrong with breast implants…and cell phones…and cars….and computers….and airplanes….and implantable medical devices! It is only if we all agree that there is something wrong with technology, that we can agree that there is something wrong with ‘breast implants’ and ‘plastic surgery’.

  17. Mandy

    July 31, 2011 at 4:27 pm

    I don’t see how makeup for women is even comparable to makeup for children. That is blatantly stupid. Obviously women wear makeup to enhance beauty and sexuality. Children can not do what most adults can do. How are you even rationalizing makeup being wrong if children can’t do it? Adults have sex, drink, smoke, swear….not children. Your argument is pathetic. No one NEEDS makeup, but as an adult I have the choice to choose to wear it. I am a makeup artist, I am obviously artistic and enjoy it and …I am an adult. Makeup sexualizes children and makes them appear older, more mature than they are mentally equipped to handle. Do you wear pretty clothes, shoes or other accessories? Human beings like to feel attractive, whether that is self imposed confidence or insecurity. What difference does it make if that person feels a bit better about doing it. At some point people have to look within and stop being led by the media telling them how to look and dress. We are all subject to media influence no matter how much you might think you are rebellious to it. Makeup is fun and it washes off…..plastic surgery is a deeper issue in opinion.


    August 1, 2011 at 4:22 am

    @Mandy, it appears to me as though you have misunderstood the purpose of this discussion. As stated in the introduction myself and mystikey have created a topic on a controversial subject and we are both arguing deliberately from opposite sides of the spectrum. Radical Chic is not forming a campaign against make-up or make-up artists. It is left for you as our audience to listen to both sides of the argument with the realisation that there is much to be learnt from seeing things from different perspectives.

    To be honest I am not entirely sure what your position is. The topic at hand is “do women “need” make-up or other forms of cosmetic enhancement?”. In your argument you acknowledge that women ‘don’t need it’; yet you seem to have gone on some sort of personal defence because of the fact that you are a make-up artist. Forgive me if I find it difficult to see the objectivity in your position, which is perhaps why you didnt understand the connection to the hypocritical attitudes people have when children wear make up. According to you make- up is art, its fun and it washes off. If that is indeed a view, it goes back to the question of why is there something wrong with kids using something that’s art, fun and washes off?

    You say make-up sexualises children. So is it your position that once you are an adult it then becomes okay to be “sexualised”? Perhaps that’s a different debate in itself.

    Now, let me get back to the battle with mystikey.

    @Mystikey, I quite agree with your position regarding the breakdown of the purposes of plastic surgery – corrective and aesthetic.

    On that note i’d like to focus more on the “aesthetic” elements of plastic surgery, and link it back to my theory of the “illusion of necessity”.

    A few years ago I watched a program on the Oprah Winfrey show called “the pregnant man”. As you can imagine its not an easy title to flick past without asking yourself if you had read it correctly. Having done a double take I realised that this really was the name of the show, and so for about an hour and a half the TV had my undivided attention.

    It turned out that the pregnant man was not actually a man. He was a woman.

    Essentially, a “person” was born as a woman; but while she was a woman she claimed she “felt like a man trapped in a womans body”. The option of plastic surgery and various other cosmetic enhancements were provided to her, so she decided to undergoe certain procedures in order to improve her aesthetics in a more manly direction.

    She legally changed her sex to “masculine” and began taking various concoctions of testosterone which caused her (or at this point I should say him) to grow a beard. Needless to say she also had her breasts removed, but she decided to keep her womb intact.

    Along the way she got married to a woman, but when they decided to have kids it was discovered that his wife was barren. After this was detected he decided to be artificially inseminated, and thus obtained the title “the pregnant man”.

    Where am I going with this?

    If I was to relate this show to your position on the aesthetics of plastic surgery we would concede that the operation she underwent to become a man was “personally and psychologically expedient in order for her to raise her self-esteem and self worth” – and this is what I would underline as a fundamental problem with society.

    Where did the “need” to raise self esteem and self worth come from – along with the need for aesthetics?

    At what point did we make the transition from being content with ‘olive oil rubbbing’ to creating and removing entire body parts?

    Simply put, society has redefined normality, and replaced it with an illusion of necessity.

    Going back to Folarins earlier point – “If a man meets you for the first time and you are not wearing make up, he may point it to you and ask why”.

    Surely there is something wrong if that is indeed a trend in society. It has come so far that men are no longer content with seeing a natural face; if its not painted on evidently its not worth seeing. According to Toni “some people may stare at you like you are from outer space”, simply because you own your own face. (No rhyme intended)

    If this is the trend it is not difficult to forsee the future of humanity regarding cosmetic enhancements. If plastic surgery down the line becomes affordable to the average joe (or I guess in this case jane) men will probably start asking women why they have small breasts, replacing “why aren’t you wearing any make-up?” with “Why haven’t you got a boob job yet?”

    Reality shows such as the “real housewives of………. (insert American state) show that there are people out there who actually have these converations, and on a regular basis discuss and undergoe one surgery after the other so they can get an extra dose of self-esteem.

    What happened to the self esteem of the past that came from reassuring oneself that there is absolutely nothing wrong with the way they look regardless of what they look like or what people say?

    The need for cosmetic enhancement is deeply rooted in the desire to be accepted; and the cosmetic industry has deceived society into thinking that the only way they can be accepted is if their outward appearance is as close to perfection as possible.

    By placing so much emphasis on the external the internal aspects of humanity have taken a back seat. Instead of focussing on being better people, the focus is now on having a better looking face.

    I agree with the fact that technology provides solutions to many problems; but in the cosmetic arena, by the very provision of “choice”, self esteem issues have been magnified by women trying to compete in the race to stay beautiful, and it is sad to say that most are developing ugly personalities in the process.

  19. Enoch

    August 2, 2011 at 8:33 pm

    I hate to quote this but…. lady’s…”sweat pants chilling with no make up on, that’s when Ur the the prettiest. I hope you don’t take it wrong.”

    In our modern Day crazy evolved society, Women grow up brainwashed with this idea that a women’s main purpose in life is just to look pretty and with the wrong vision of what is pretty (men are grown up with that brainwashing too) . And the worst thing is this is enhanced by today’s women as we see them receive Respect, Success, Rewards etc. just cause of the mere fact that they look good, best example pretty much 99.99% of todays Entertainment industries.
    This furthermore encourager the idea that somehow it is an innate expectation for a women always to look good.
    The worst thing is that especially those women have this crazy idea that they are free and independent, but the truth is they are probably just as liberated as a women in Saudi Arabia.
    High-Heels were created by a men, The first boob job was done by a male Doctor, All major record labels, Fashion Magazines, advertisement companies, pretty much anything that controls us consciously and subconsciousnessly is controlled by Men and we are all expose to their idea of beauty everyday. so the truth is we don’t know what real beauty is.
    therefore when a women tries to be pretty by doing all these enhancement she is not doing it for herself, she is doing it because that exactly what men have set to be perceived as beautiful.

    the cliche statement ” Im doing it to make to feel good about myself not because of other” But why do you feel better about yourself after the enhancement? – because you know people will think better of you then, and knowing that makes you feel better about yourself.

    Unfortunately there is not even a handful of women who made it through this Mans World without relying on their looks, and the media is exposing them to the wrong examples.

    Women are fantastic and they amaze me all the time, but I hope we will one day live in a world,
    people do not love each other for their fake beauties but the beauty of their spirit thoughts and minds.
    as one of my favourite peots said,”I wannna get to know everything about you, from the neck up”

    So does a women need beauty enhancement or make up? NO.
    So do some or generally do not look beautiful or look ugly without it ? No
    So why do most people think so? Because we have been told all our lifes that those impurities are not beautiful that is has become such an obvious think that we have forgotten what beautiful looks like.
    you want know what beauty is like again? then go back to when you were a infant that was when we were not exposed to all the BS.

    And doesn’t femi always mention that Jesus mentioned something about we can only get into the kingdom of heaven as a child.

    I apologies for no structure in this and the vast amount of slang, spelling mistakes and grammar, I just let out my thoughts as I feel very passionate about this . and Women don’t be offended.

  20. Tobystic

    August 2, 2011 at 9:44 pm

    lol…I dont even know where to start but @Mandy calling someone’s opinion ‘blatantly stupid’ is so fuuuunnnnnnnyyyy!

  21. Tobystic

    August 2, 2011 at 10:48 pm

    Wait @Mystikey, “she (Esther) pleased him..” was verse 9 right. what I wanna say is, Esther was
    already pretty in form.Just go to verse 7 . If Esther wasn’t, Hegai
    would be performing a conjecture, and I do not see why he would be running an hypothesis for such a task as getting a king’s wife. she was definitely pretty from time.
    Why the phrasal verb “make-up” is in use is beyond me. I would prefer ‘enhancer’ or something. Like Femi said, it already depicts deception by using “make-up”
    In fact ,left to me, the subject of beauty is another social epidemic. while some form of beauty is exceptional, you really want to ask yourself sometime, who designed the convention by which beauty is defined?
    Haven’t U found yourself in places where 8 out of 10 men will tell you this Agbani Darego is not even pretty, almost all the gals in my class are prettier. In fact to me, she doesn’t even rank among the top 3 in my grad class in college so what?
    Isnt it the society, the media and all that have predefined what beauty is, butt jaws, rosy cheeks, gap tooth, blue and hazel eyes and all, do you want to tell me someone lacking all these cannot be pretty?
    Take another look that Men prefer ladies that are fair in complexion.
    This is another thing built into young boys while growing up. They listen to songs like ‘omo pupa o, omo pupa lemi n fe…” by Victor Uwaifo and such and they build an ideology round fair chics. Everything in life is built on notions made popular by Mavens and people we extol because we believe whatever they say, do or like must be straight next to Utopia or some sort.
    Here’s my word in all, life would exist and be fine with ladies without make up but if need be to enhance the beauty, then fine, so be it.

  22. gracefulthinking

    August 10, 2011 at 5:35 pm

    hhmmmm this topic is emotional.

  23. Anon

    August 14, 2011 at 8:48 pm

    Lool@ ‘gracefulthinking’…
    It is indeed emotional..the day u men start to appreciate women without make-up,brazilian hair,wonderbra n co then we’ll start to go without make-up and all things superficial.. The day u men start to appreciate saggy tits after ur women have a kid or two then we’ll stop dreaming of boob jobs.. The day u start saying “u look fantastic” first thing in d morning then we’ll be comfortable n confident enough to go around barefaced!!

  24. hotshot bald cop

    September 2, 2011 at 2:01 am

    Right on!


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